This is a transcript of the podcast with Spencer Williams of The Art of the Costume blog and podcast.
Lexy: Welcome back to another episode of eLEXYfy, the Place for Fashion podcast. I’m your host, Lexy Silverstein.
On this week’s episode, we have my dear, dear amazing, incredible friend. He’s the founder and lead editor of The Art of Costume blog and also the podcast host for The Art of Costume Podcast. Welcome, Spencer. How are you?
Spencer: Oh my gosh, Lexy, what’s up? I miss you!
Lexy: I miss you too! It’s been so long. For anyone who doesn’t know, I met Spencer at FIDM (Fashion Institute of Design & Manufacturing) where we both also work.
Spencer: Right.
Lexy: And he sadly is stuck with me as a friend now forever.
Spencer: That’s very unfortunate.
Lexy: Oh yeah, you can’t get rid of me, I’m so sorry.
Spencer: Lexy. You never write, you never call, you never text. I’m just standing at my window every day just waiting for the mailman to show up with a letter, nothing.
Lexy: Oh my god, I will send you a letter, but I won’t send it through the mailman. You’ll get, like, an owl at your door.
Spencer: Okay, that works too.
Lexy: It’ll be sick, right?
Spencer: Also, who has pencils and pens these days?
Lexy: Yeah, I don’t know. You’ll get a nice email. “Hey, Spence, what’s going on?”
Anyway, for those who don’t know you, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Tell us about yourself.
Spencer: Oh my gosh, okay. So, I have been in LA now for almost 10 years. I’m coming up on my decade, which is crazy. I grew up in a really small town called Victorville. It is in the high desert. And I was just always really inspired by pop culture, fashion, TV shows, movies, drag, everything. And I just knew that one day, I had to get the hell out of here and move to Los Angeles. Or anywhere, honestly. I was like, “Anywhere with a city and like subways and stuff, that’d be cool, right?” And then, yeah, I graduated high school and within a week, I moved to Los Angeles, and I haven’t looked back since.
Now, I’m just this out-of-control nerd who just consumes pop culture, TV, and movies 24/7. I have the blog, the podcast, so I’m just a real nightmare, just a nerd about everything useless in this life.
Lexy: I love that ’cause you know me, and not quite as much as you, but I’m also a really big nerd. You know more about, like, I don’t know, Lord of the Rings and stuff like that than I do, but you know that we get in our Marvel debates probably every other day.
Spencer: Yeah. I promise not to bring up your bad opinions about Marvel movies on your own podcast.
Lexy: Maybe let’s rephrase that sentence and make it more accurate. Like, your bad opinions about different Marvel movies, I don’t know. Anyways, we’re not gonna fight on the pod or maybe we are. You never know.
Spencer: I can’t promise it,
Lexy: But that’s actually so interesting. I didn’t know that you moved straight to LA after high school. I’m a kind of bad friend for not knowing that, but you learn something new every day.
Spencer: That’s why we’re doing this.
When did you get into fashion and costumes?
Lexy: That is why we’re doing this. Oh, you said that you were always interested in, like, all things fashion. Was there, like, a certain “aha” moment or is it like, my parents always tell me, like, ever since I could crawl, that I was into fashion? Is there something like that for you? And then, more specifically, when did you get into the costume aspect of it all?
Spencer: Yeah, so it’s kind of a crazy story because I always wanted to be in marine biology. I’m obsessed with the ocean. I love everything about the ocean – Shark Week, any sort of ocean documentary, video games – I’m there. And that was the goal. I took every AP class possible – well, not every but almost all of them. I was ready to become a marine biologist. And I don’t know when the flip switched – switch flipped – you get what I’m saying? I just one day, I don’t know, it just changed for me when I just really became interested in fashion.
I was always watching, you know, fantasy sci-fi movies, and I thought that was really informing my love for fashion. I love Alexander McQueen. I was like, that could be me. I want to do what Alexander McQueen does. I loved Lady Gaga. That was like, I was such a little monster stan back then. It’s real bad. I’m still deleting Facebook posts to this day.
Lexy: Oh, I’m gonna go find them.
Spencer: Yeah, I was just obsessed with all her looks. And also, I was really big into drag. Even when I was in high school, I was writing for a blog called Work.com where we cover drag culture. I specifically worked in fashion. I was watching RuPaul’s Drag Race back when the show first started. I fell in love with, like, the New York drag ballroom scene, you know, the House of House of LaBeija Extravaganza. So, I was really into fashion. Of course, I went to FIDM and started studying fashion design.
As I got to FIDM, probably like a year into it, I was like, “Oh, this is really hard.” I still kept going with it thinking like, “This is it. Making a collection, sewing.” I was like, “This is hard, but like, I love it,” right? And I don’t think I really did. Like, I love fashion, but I didn’t know if I loved actually doing it, making it. I wish I could just sketch things and have people make it for me, which is terrible.
But what happened is when I was working at FIDM, I was working with the PR department – shout out to Rachel Padilla. I love her dearly. She gave me one of my first jobs, and my job was being an usher at the FIDM Museum. And the FIDM Museum does these really great exhibitions where we show off costumes from either the Oscar season or the Emmy season. And my job was being an usher and ushering in some of these costume designers into the museum. And I didn’t really understand what costume was. Little did I know, I was really obsessed with costume this entire time. Looking back at my love for drag and Gaga and McQueen and movies, it was always costume.
So when I started walking these costume designers, I walked in Trish Somerville. I took her to her costumes. That’s when she just did the costumes for Hunger Games: Catching Fire. Those costumes were sick, and I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is like a real celebrity. This lady is just so badass.” I was obsessed with her. Low-key had a crush. I did another exhibit where I walked in Lynn, who did the costumes for Walking Dead, which was my favorite show at the time.
So I just started meeting all these people designing costumes from my favorite shows. And that’s when it really clicked. I was like, “I never was supposed to be a fashion designer. Like, I always loved costume design.” And I have not looked back.
It’s been a crazy journey, but yeah, costume has just taken over my life. I feel like I could talk about it every second of every day. People probably find it very annoying, but when you find something you love, you just really grasp onto it. It feels like my world, that’s where I’m supposed to be, and it’s opened up so many doors for me ever since.
Lexy: Oh, I love that. I feel like your experience is so common. You go to college thinking you’re going to do one thing, you go in and you’re like, “I have no idea even what I’m going to do at all,” which is like the majority of people that go into college. Because why are you supposed to know what you’re going to do for the rest of your life when your brain is not fully developed?
Spencer: That’s the whole point. You’re signing up for these majors, and that’s not even fashion where you start and you’re like, “Okay, this is actually not what I love at all,”
Lexy: …literally…
Spencer: …and it pushes you into different paths.
Lexy: Yes, and I think that it’s so great that you were able to find your path and that you’re so passionate about it. You know, I feel like that’s just like, I’m so passionate about really doing what you want to do in life and loving your job and everything that you do, and I’m glad that you kind of found the thing that drives you.
Spencer: Thank you. Yeah, I didn’t really until I said it, I was like, “Wow, I really did do that.”
What is the biggest difference between regular fashion and costume design?
Lexy: Well, on the other side, me, I know literally nothing about costume design. I am not a fashion design major. I am a marketing major, so I am definitely more on the marketing-business side of the fashion industry. So, can you tell me, since you kind of did the fashion design and then now you study costume design, and maybe not actually putting the clothes together, but you study all things costumes, what is the biggest difference maybe from regular everyday fashion to costume design?
Spencer: So, this is a question I get a lot because it’s almost like still a debate when people talk about it because a lot of people confuse stylists and costume designers, and I get why people get confused. It is very confusing.
Fashion really is just about creating your own personal style, whereas, I mean, we could go into it forever, but short form, costume design really is about storytelling. It’s about developing a character, and also, you’re being told by a director or a producer what this character is going to look like based on a script. So, it’s more than just pulling things off a rack, and it just works like that. No, you have to think about the fabrics and the colors. What do the colors say about this character’s mood? What’s happening in the film or show that’s addressing their costume?
Also, what have they gone through on their journey? Maybe they’re running around through dirt, well, now their clothes are dirty, so that has to be represented on their clothes as well. So, it’s just way more complex, and I love it. It’s really about telling a story and identifying things within a script that need to be represented in clothes.
Also, costume design really just has such power to send messages as well. You’re able to understand what’s happening or understand a character just by looking at a garment. And sometimes it’s way complex. Sometimes, you’re like, “Oh, I know this person. I know what they’re about, and I know I don’t trust them or maybe I love them.” And that’s really the magic of costume design. Not to short-sell fashion because fashion is cool too, and in ways, people use fashion to tell their own stories or create their own characterization. But you’re writing your own script, so it’s not exactly the same thing.
Lexy: Yeah, this is probably like the world’s most basic example. I’m sure there are eight million, billion different movies and shows that do this. But I always saw, after Euphoria Season 2 came out on TikTok, I’d always see people that talked about the color theory and like how each of the characters wore certain colors in their costumes. And then how with Sydney Sweeney’s character, you can see her literally in her costume. Like she’s wearing like maybe everyday clothes that some of us wear, but you can literally see her clothes change from like something that her character Cassie would wear to like something that Maddie would wear. And I always thought that that was like so interesting how they did that. And like I would watch these in-depth TikToks about it, and my brain would just be like mind [ __ ]. And I was like, “Oh my god, like that’s so cool. Like costumes are just crazy because they really do tell the story of…” like again, basic example.
But I just remember always seeing that on my For You page, and I was like, “That’s so interesting. Like, I wonder what other shows do this? Like probably all of them, but still.”
Spencer: Right, well, that’s what I love too. And like looking at like, you know, Cassie’s a good example too because you know she’s slowly at one point trying to become more like Maddie. So you see like a little bit more like I don’t know, edgier silhouettes in that clothing she’s wearing, trying to be a little bit more like Maddie. Just like subtle things like that that you know, maybe you don’t always pick up on, but the costume designer is picking up on.
Costume design’s badass, and costume designers do such interesting things.
Lexy: I think that people, when you see their like brain work, whether it’s in like a costume or like in like easter eggs like Taylor Swift or like Lin-Manuel Miranda and like Hamilton. Like, you see like these easter eggs and I’m just like, “Oh my god, like you guys are so smart for thinking of something like that for like slowly transitioning Cassie from this to that or putting these colors with that person.” I’m like, “That’s so smart. Like I’m like, I would never have thought of doing that.”
Spencer: So glad you brought up Hamilton because that’s one of my favorite examples actually. And not just because I’m a Hamilton nerd, but like, you know, like in a second act, Lin-Manuel Miranda’s character Hamilton, he starts wearing green because he becomes the Secretary of Treasury, and green is the color of money. You see Thomas Jefferson and his character in a play is heavily inspired by Prince, so he’s wearing purple. So just like interesting moments like that, I just, I love that.
Lexy: So cool, smart. Like, I’m just like, how does your brain work like that? That’s insane.
You are reading a transcript of eLEXYfy, The Place for Fashion with The Art of the Costume Spencer Williams.
When did you start the Art of Costume Blog and Podcast?
Lexy: Talking more about you, fun. I know you mentioned that you were a part of a blog, I think when you were in high school. When did you start your blog and your podcast? And what has been one of your proudest moments for both of those thus far?
Spencer: Hmm, yeah. So in high school, actually. So, I’m still a part of it technically. I did work at Work.com as their deputy editor doing interviews, fashion columns, mostly red carpet was always my thing, and I fell in love with blogging. My mentor, Chiffon Dior, taught me everything about managing a blog. And I was talking about doing something for costume design for such a long time.
I started like a little crappy Instagram with like, you know, 100 followers just posting about costumes like once a week. I didn’t know how Instagram worked.
And then in 2019, I just made a jump for it and I made the blog. What it was was Black Panther had just come out, and I was like, “God, this movie is so good. Look at the costumes.” And I was like, “That’s it. I’m starting a blog.” So I created The Art of Costume.
It was originally just me doing occasional articles about different films, talking about really just things that I want to talk about. And then as the pandemic came on, I opened it up and I started a team. And I have now with me writers from all over the world, from India to, my gosh, Canada, all over the place who create articles for the website, which I love.
And then one of my best friends, Elizabeth, who you’ve met, we went to FIDM together, we were roommates together, and she was my senior writer at the blog. And she wanted to start a podcast, and I was like, “Yeah, let’s go for it.” We launched that in 2020, yeah, during June, I believe. And so we use that podcast now to just extend our nerdiness to like a vocal platform where we talk about TV shows and movies every week and break down the costumes. And it has been so fun. I’m obsessed with it.
And proudest moment? That’s crazy. I wrote some of this down. Yeah, we’ve done some really fun episodes. I loved having you on talking about Spider-Man. That was hilarious and all your Andrew Garfield knowledge.
But really, I just loved the chance to be able to meet and work with so many different costume designers and later becoming besties. We did an episode with Carrie Bennett, who designed the costumes for the good seasons of The Office. I mean, I love The Office, but she did the best seasons. We did a holiday episode that was so fun, and we ended up auctioning off one of Michael Scott’s robes and raised money for a climate change foundation, the Sunrise Movement, which was super fun.
And also, we’ve done interviews with some really exciting costume designers. Laura Montgomery from What We Do in the Shadows, one of my favorite shows, recently. I did Pam and Tommy with Cameron Lennox. Love that show, some good Sebastian Stan moments. And just like really cool costume designers. Mona May, who did Clueless, that was like a really iconic moment for us.
So I’d say, I mean, my proudest moment is happening, like, seems like on a monthly basis. Just every person I meet, I’m like, “This is awesome.”
Lexy: Yeah, I know that feeling because since I started my podcast, which was over a year ago, it has given me so many opportunities to talk to different people who see eye-to-eye with me or to learn more. You talk to people way more than I do, and sometimes they’re crazy and cool, and I’m just like, “Wow, that’s insane!” They’re within your field, and I completely understand that.
My proudest moment for you was when you were invited to an event, and Andrew Garfield was in the same room as you and I cried.
Spencer: That was crazy! Andrew Garfield was there, and the one you didn’t understand was Judah Flight was there, and I was like, “Oh, she’s so beautiful!”
Yeah, also just crazy moments like recently interviewing the costume designer from The Book of Boba Fett and another one from Moon Knight. I’m watching these shows right now, and I’m obsessed with them, so the fact that I get to interview Marvel and Star Wars costume designers is so cool! It’s crazy!
Lexy: I’ll see something, and maybe I haven’t watched it, but I know that my boyfriend or Spencer, my brother, will really enjoy it, and I’m like, “Oh my god, you’ll never believe who Spencer, my friend, interviewed!” And they’re like, “That’s so cool!”
And I think even once, what was it? Oh, there’s the new TV show Game of Thrones one,
Spencer: House of the Dragon.
Lexy: That one. And Kaden was like, “Oh my god, you should tell your friend Spencer to interview someone from that,” and I was like, “I’m sure he’s on it. I’m sure he’s trying so hard.”
Spencer: Well, tell Spencer, the other Spencer, that I am already actively working on it. Costumes designed by Jany Temime, who also did Harry Potter Azkaban to the end. Oh, those costumes are so badass! I’m ready. Let me know, Jany.
Lexy: I guarantee Spencer’s definitely watching that show, and there’s absolutely no way that he’s not trying so hard to get someone on this podcast.
Costume Exhibitions in the FIDM Museum
Lexy: Well, that is amazing! I am very proud of you and your blog and your podcast and everything that you do. Another thing that you should be very proud of, that I’m sure you are and that all your friends are very proud of you for doing, is you have a big part in the FIDM museum’s different exhibitions, correct?
Spencer: Yeah, it’s kind of been a crazy thing that’s happened in the past year or so. I call it ghost curating where, you know, that’s not my title. It’s not an official title at all, but I’ve been on the exhibition committee for the FIDM museum for the past two exhibits. One is currently open now.
The current exhibit is Art of Costume Design in Television where we have costumes from all the popular TV shows right now, including a crap ton of Emmy nominees in there right now.
And this really came, you know, I’m good friends with Lee Wishner, who works at the FIDM Museum. She is in charge of getting all those costumes in there, working with loaners and studios. And occasionally, being a nerd pays off when you know too much about something like costume design. You’re like, “Oh, what TV show should we put in here?” I’m like jumping up and down like, “Oh, I know! Pick me!”
So yeah, I’ve been working with the FIDM Museum now for two exhibits, helping them pick some costumes, picking shows, selecting costumes from those shows. And it’s been like a real dream come true because I didn’t realize I’ve always wanted to curate a museum exhibition. And now I’m kind of addicted. I don’t know what I’m gonna do after the FIDM Museum. I gotta chase this feeling.
There’s so many great shows in there right now, so you gotta check it out. Head to the FIDM Museum. We have Stranger Things, we have the Eddie Munson look, which is so badass. We have the Euphoria costumes, which I picked all those costumes, actually. I was very proud of that one. We have Maddie’s look, where she’s pounding on the door in season two, just that iconic piece. Pam and Tommy, Loki, Bridgerton season two, which I’m obsessed with. And we even got What We Do in the Shadows, which I worked really hard to get those costumes in there. We got them in, I think like three or four days before the exhibit opened, so that was crazy. And this whole experience is crazy, but I love it. It’s such a great feeling. Definitely a dream come true, you know? Like working as an intern, walking through there, not knowing what I was doing, to now picking costumes.
Lexy: I was gonna say that. I was like, “Wow, you really worked your way up in the museum.”
Spencer: I did. I didn’t mean to, either. I don’t know how all this happened. None of this was a part of the plan.
Lexy: That’s what makes it even better. You didn’t know. It just kind of happened, and now you’re here, and you’re happy about it, and it’s all stuff that you should be very proud of.
I forget the exact hours and stuff of the FIDM Museum, but I’m pretty sure anyone, whether you’re a FIDM student or not, can visit the exhibition.
Spencer: Yeah, it’s free admission. It’s open Tuesdays through Saturdays, 10 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. And I believe it closes on November 4th. I’ll just say it closes very early November. So, as long as you go between now and early November, you should be good.
Lexy: There you go. See, I’m like, “I haven’t been at FIDM in a few months, and I’m forgetting literally everything.” I’m like, “I used to post about the FIDM Museum, and now I cannot remember the times.” But Spencer, thank you for inserting those, because I forgot.
Spencer: No, I’m good.
Lexy: But definitely check them out. I’m like jealous that I’m not currently in L.A. because I have been looking at them through your Art of Costume Instagram and through FIDM and everyone, all the FIDM students that were able to attend so far. And I’m just like, “I need to see that Eddie Munson costume.
Spencer: Its so good. Oh my gosh, yesterday I got a TikTok comment, and someone asked me what it smells like. I haven’t been back yet, but I’m gonna try to see if I could like get close enough to get a whiff. I don’t know. We’ll see. I’m sure it smells great though.
Lexy: I’m sure. My friend Julia, who recently graduated, she’s currently in Europe, but she won’t stop talking about coming back to L.A. to see this Eddie Munson costume because she’s like, “I love him.” I’m sure if she’s not the one who commented, she’s definitely thinking about what it smells like.
Spencer: I’m sure it smells like Axe body spray but also like rock and roll and cigarettes.
Lexy: Yeah, don’t give me the Axe, no, no. It’s got to smell like… no, Axe is not good, but the cigarettes and the rock and roll, I could see that.
What are some of your favorite costumes of all time?
Lexy: Well, anyways, give us the inside scoop, give us the “T.” What are some of your favorite costumes of all time? And if that’s a little too broad, if you can’t choose all time, then maybe one of, what are some of your favorite recent costumes?
Spencer: Well, folks, disclosure, Lexy sent me that question ahead of time, which was super thankful because if you asked me down the spot, I would have short-circuited and died. But what’s hard is I’m like, there’s no way Lexy’s seen some of these movies, but we’ll give it a go.
Black Panther Fashion
Spencer: I’ll start off easy, Black Panther. Those costumes designed by Ruth Carter, I mean, I said they’re the reason why I started my blog. They’re just so groundbreaking. I’m so glad Ruth won the Oscar that year, so well deserved. Now she has a star in a Hollywood Walk of Fame, which is also badass, the second costume designer to do so.
But let’s dive into some other films that I’m like, let’s see if Lexy’s even seen these.
Bram Stoker’s Dracula Fashion
Spencer: Have you ever seen Bram Stoker’s Dracula from the 90s?
Lexy: I have not. I don’t think I’ve ever even heard of that.
Spencer: I saw that one coming. Great movie with Keanu Reeves, Winona Ryder, and Gary Oldman. The costumes are designed by Eiko Ishioka, who won the Oscar that year and has since passed away, but her work on that film is just so groundbreaking and inspiring. So beautiful. I don’t know how to explain to you, especially since you haven’t seen it, but for those that are listening who’ve seen Dracula, know what I’m talking about. Those costumes are it.
Dune Fashion
Spencer: Some recent ones I loved, Dune. I feel like it was robbed of the Oscar. Love you, Carilla, but I just feel like Dune was just… It was everything. The costume designers were Jacqueline West and Bob Morgan, and they really had to create an entire world on Arrakis and the other one that Timothée Chalamet lived on, which is escaping me. It starts with an “a,” I think.
Lexy: I have not seen Dune, but I know the costumes. I’m behind. You need to give me a list of movies to watch.
Everything Everywhere All at Once Fashion
Spencer: Really? Another one, which you probably haven’t seen this one, but just came out, Everything Everywhere All at Once.
Lexy: I heard it was really good.
Spencer: Really good. Really crazy costumes are designed by Shirley Karada, who also is like a really talented stylist. I would definitely recommend you looking her up. Such a great one.
Pam and Tommy Fashion
Spencer: Let’s see, what else? I love Pam and Tommy. I mentioned that already. I love the fact that the costume designer had to create thongs to fit Sebastian Stan’s prosthetic penis, like this is what we talked about in costume design. I love that story.
The Gilded Age Fashion
Spencer: “The Gilded Age” is a great TV show, which was not nominated for an Emmy. Don’t get me started. I will punch the wall.
Crimson Peak Fashion
Spencer: And then other shows, like “Crimson Peak,” the Guillermo del Toro film with oh my gosh, Tom Hiddleston and Jessica Chastain. Yeah, that film! Those costumes are great.
The Fifth Element Fashion
Spencer: And then wrapping it up, oh my gosh, Lexy hasn’t seen these either. “The Fifth Element” by Jean-Paul Gaultier.
Lexy: Oh, but I love Jean-Paul Gaultier, my favorite designer.
Spencer: Yeah, so that is when Gaultier, as a fashion designer, came over as a costume designer and had to create this massive world for this film. Um, you would definitely recognize pictures.
Lexy: Probably. I’ll probably recognize pictures from all these. I’m just not… I haven’t seen them.
Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings Fashion
Spencer: And then of course, Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings – just great costuming films, amongst other things. Game of Thrones has the famous IKEA rug that was used as a cape in one of the costumes.
Lexy: Oh really?
Spencer: Yeah, all the Night’s Watch, back when they first started and the budget was real low, they were taking IKEA rugs and turning those into capes. Which I love that.
Lexy: That’s crazy. I love that. I love that. That’s so funny.
Spencer: Yeah, so you knew, like, all of one or two of this list.
Lexy: Yeah, I’ve seen a few. I knew a few of them, seen a few of them. Give me a list, I’ll watch them. I promise. Then we can discuss all of them when I’m back in L.A.
Spencer: Every Marvel film has awesome costume design, too.
Lexy: And I’ve seen every one. So there we go.
What are your least favorite costumes?
Lexy: And on to the more negative matter. Any that you can tell us that are maybe some of your least favorite costumes?
Spencer: That’s hard. I was literally… this was keeping me up last night. I have, like, a rule on the Instagram-TikTok podcast. I try not to say any negative things about costumes and costume designers in a sense that, like, if I don’t like the costumes, we just won’t do that movie or show. That being said, the negative thoughts are still there, very invasive. However, I’ll say, like, I don’t really know of too many costumes that, like, stand out bad, you know? Like, because there’s always, like, one good costume when there’s a bad costume.
However, if I have to pick one, I’ll say that the DC costume design really needs to step a bit up. I mean, just look at their superheroes. They’re always to me, like, slightly undercooked, their costumes, and they need a few more minutes in the oven before we put some of these films out. Sorry, DC. Now, these are not gonna work with me.
Lexy: I am not a DC stan as much as I am a Marvel stan. So I’m, I think in general, DC needs to let their movies cook in the oven more.
Spencer: Just think about, like, the Marvel costume design. Like “WandaVision” designed by Maya C. Rubio, who also did the first “Avatar” movie. Eyebrows, eyebrows. Like the costumes for that show were so sick, so inspiring. And then you see some movies like, I don’t know, Justice League, Aquaman, or that new Black Adam movie. Or, like, I don’t know…just a couple more minutes in the oven, that’s all I’m saying.
Lexy: Yeah, it’s just a little bit of constructive criticism. Not that they’re bad, not that they’re terrible, just maybe…maybe a little bit more work.
Spencer: They’re just, you know, they’re just not as realistic. Like, at least Marvel’s not realistic either, but it’s like very inspired by realism, which I will say Suicide Squad did really well too. Or, they look at a crazy comic book character and they’re like, “Okay, we can’t do that. This is a comic book. How can we make this feel more real-life?” And I feel like with DC films, they take that shit right out of the comic book. They’re like, “Yep, that’s it,” and you’re like, “No, I don’t know, like…”
Lexy: This is literally…okay, not to get into Marvel and all that stuff, but this is literally a common thing I always say, because I’m like, I feel like earlier Marvel movies were so much more realistic, and I’m like, well, not that any of it’s that realistic, because we have crazy aliens in the sky and stuff like that, and superheroes and stuff – at least that we know – but I’m like, for some reason, I’ll watch earlier phases, and I’m like, this is like…it’s not realistic, but it’s just more realistic. And then I was watching Doctor Strange, which was not my favorite of the most recent movies, and there was the CGI one-eyed monster thing, and I was like, “See, this is just, like, I feel like it’s right out of a comic book.” Like, I’m like, it’s not realistic, but none of it’s realistic, so I don’t know how to explain it, but I feel like you actually just did a really good job of it.
Spencer: A good example real quick, and I’ll stop talking about this, is the recent Hawkeye show. Looking at comic books, Hawkeye’s supposed to have some big, stupid mask on his head, which just looks ridiculous. So then, in the show, the costume designer is like, “We’re not doing that,” and it just created a cool, badass Hawkeye costume that had accents of purple in it, because in the comic books, he wears straight purple latex, you know? So in the show, they’re like, “Hawkeye would never wear that in, like, this MCU.” So they just created a cool low-key outfit with, you know, some purple in it, and that’s what I love. I love that sort of realistic thinking, even though it’s a fictional story.
Lexy: Yeah, me too, especially, like, this was kind of recent, I guess, but when they did Green Goblin in Tobey Maguire’s Spider-Man, and then obviously in No Way Home, like, that…like, in the comics, because he’s literally…like a Goblin…
Spencer: He’s an actual goblin.
Lexy: I like that they’re like, I like that they didn’t do that, and then I also liked how they changed it from the original ones to the No Way Home one because they said that the mask or whatever made it hard to…there were a lot of reasons why they did that, but one of them I read was that the mask, since the mouth didn’t move and stuff like you couldn’t see his creepy expressions and, you know, that Willem Dafoe does a really great job of that. I love him.
Spencer: That’s his thing.
Are there any shows or movies that incorporate sustainable fashion into their costumes?
Lexy: Thank you for your insight on your favorite and least favorite costumes. You know that I am a huge advocate for sustainable fashion. Are there any shows or movies that you know that kind of care about that sustainable aspect when it comes to their costumes?
Spencer: So, I wouldn’t say specific shows or films because it’s really based on the costume designers who move, you know, through different studios and whatnot. I will say the film industry as a whole, television also, is extremely wasteful and like we all know this to be true.
So, I would love to see so many stronger measures for costume designers to keep up and make sure that their projects are very sustainable. And there are ways to do that, for example, especially with bigger films and shows, so many garments are pulled into, you know, any sort of film that has so many different actors and background actors requires a lot of garments. Um, so we’re seeing like a real big movement now of designers really focusing on second-hand vintage shopping to really source all these costumes because there’s so much out there.
There’s no reason to make a new costume for every single background actor, every actor, you know, like there are exceptions, like when you have a superhero like you’re not going to find a Scarlet Witch costume on the rack anywhere so you have to make that. But then that gives you the opportunity to really source sustainable fabrics and make sure you know what you’re doing.
Also, there are so many costume houses now where you could rent a lot of these costumes and reuse costumes from other shows. Like, people don’t even know when they see a costume in a film or tv show, it’s probably already been used in another movie or tv show, you just haven’t noticed it.
One big one, Bridgerton, is notorious for right now just like having a million and two costumes and the hope is, is that when Bridgerton wraps, who knows when, because they’re making so many costumes, that they’re gonna there’s keeping all these costumes and eventually turning it into a costume house, so then any production or show going forward who’s you know creating sort of a regency period look, they should be able to go to the Bridgerton store and pick up costumes A, B, and C and be good. There’s no reason to be making all these dresses and wasting fabric, wasting time, and continuing to harm our environment.
So, there are ways. I won’t pretend like costume design is a healthy industry at all for our planet, but there are ways for us to get better and I do see a lot more people making a stronger effort to make a difference.
Lexy: Yeah, no completely, and I actually when I went to the Bridgerton event in DC, I looked it up because I try to you know make everything about sustainability and I looked it up and looked at some of their sustainable aspects and I remember reading a whole caption about it on Instagram. But, so if anyone wants to either look it up or look at my Instagram, you can find that there. Reading something about what you just mentioned and also how they make a ton of dresses, it’s like a ton. It’s a lot of dresses but I mean it makes sense and so I read something that they were trying to at least reuse some of the fabric or the bases of dresses from season one into season two. But yeah, I feel like like you said, like costume, it’s so much more difficult maybe for like certain outfits, like I feel like Zendaya in Euphoria, her outfit could have probably been thrifted or something like that.
Yeah, but like in Marvel, like you said, you can’t just kind of get that at a Goodwill. Um, if you could because then I would know my Halloween costume for this year, but it’s kind of unrealistic unless you have really good thrifting luck. So I get that, and I completely agree with you. I think we can all do a better job of trying to find more sustainable ways of doing things.
Spencer: Yeah, I think there’s really no excuse for costume designers. There’s always an element or a way to find, you know, ways to implement secondhand shopping, thrifting, especially if you’re doing any sort of piece nowadays. Like Euphoria, where we’re really looking at trends from the ’90s, 2000, or any sort of show that’s happening now, you’re able to get a lot of these costumes from vintage and second-hand stores.
So I know a lot of costume designers are doing that. For example, the new Jordan Peele film Nope, with costume designer by Alex Bilvard. Almost every costume in the film is a vintage garment where they’ve sourced it, fan t-shirts, graphic tees, where they’re shopping on eBay and trying to get that one special t-shirt. It is also hard, though, for costume designers because when you’re in an action film or whatnot and there’s lots of blood and gore, you need multiples of these things. So that is the challenge. But I really think people should try to source these costumes when the chance presents itself.
Lexy: Definitely, and I remember too we had some of the costume designers from the Sex and the City spin-off come. Those qualify as costumes, right, like that wouldn’t just be enough? Yeah, I’m assuming, but I didn’t want to be wrong. And I know that Carrie Bradshaw wears a lot of vintage and thrifted stuff in that, and so that’s really cool.
What costumes for upcoming films and TV shows are you most excited to see?
Lexy: Wrapping up, there are a ton of upcoming films that we, that I personally am very excited about, and I’m sure that you are very excited about too. Which of these costumes are you most excited to see or see more of if you already saw them in trailers?
Spencer: Oh my gosh, okay, well House of the Dragon is out right now and those costumes are so far killing it every episode, so you can watch it on HBO right now. But films coming out… okay, last TV show, also the new Lord of the Rings TV show, it’s gonna be fire.
But okay, films coming out, the new Black Panther movie, already those costumes look very promising. She’s gonna kill it. She’s probably gonna get the Oscar again. Ruth Carter is just, she knows what she’s doing.
I’m excited to see Don’t Worry Darling, that’s gonna be fun. The costumes are designed by Ariane Phillips, who did Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, so she really knows how to throw together a vintage look.
Also, Dune is supposed to be coming back out again in maybe a year or so.
Lexy: Isn’t Florence Pugh and Austin Butler supposed to be in this one too? That’s what I heard.
Spencer: Florence and Austin, not a big Austin fan. He gives me the creeps, but the costumes are gonna be amazing. I don’t know who’s designing the costumes. I hope it’s the same co-designers from the first one because it’s so amazing.
But I mean that’s the fun thing about what I do. There’s something new coming out on what feels like every single day, and it’s probably also the hardest thing about what I do. Like every single night’s like, “oh this new movie, this new TV show, like did you watch this?” Like no, like there’s only so many hours in a day to watch shows and movies.
Lexy: You gotta stay on it Spencer, come on. You’re not watching TV and movies every moment of every day, huh?
Spencer: Sometimes I just want to stay home and watch Naked and Afraid. Like I can’t…
Lexy: There’s no costumes there that’s for sure.
Spencer: That’s why I love it.
Lexy: Well, thank you so much for coming on today. Where can people find you on social media?
Spencer: Well, you can find me personally on Instagram and Twitter at HauteSpencer. Like haute couture; it is not Hot Spencer, no matter what anyone says. If I could change it, I would, but it’s too late for that. But please follow the Art of Costume on Instagram. It’s at the Art of Costume. Also, on TikTok, we’re blowing up over on TikTok at the Art of Costume as well. And then follow our podcast. It comes out every Tuesday on all podcast platforms, and it’s called the Art of Costume Podcast. And you can follow us on Instagram as well at the Art of Costume Pod.
Lexy: Amazing!
Spencer: I just want to say that I’m just so incredibly proud of you. I know I give you a lot of [ __ ] and I do kind of hate you, but you’re just killing it, and I’m just so happy for you. And I think that everything you’re doing for sustainability is just so impressive, and I will see you at the Avatar blue carpet.
Lexy: I seriously do miss you. I’m gonna do a better job of texting you, but thank you so much for saying all that, and I love you, and I’m proud of you too.
Well, everyone, make sure you go follow Spencer and his podcast and blog, and just, you know, keep up with everything that he’s doing because he’s doing a lot of amazing things. And while you’re at it, you can follow me on my social media. My Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube are all @LexySilverstein. That’s L-e-x-y Silver, like the color S-t-e-i-n, and remember to make the ordinary extraordinary.
I hope you enjoyed the podcast. For more information on fashion and sustainable fashion follow eLEXYfy, The Place for Fashion Podcast.
Lexy Silverstein is a sustainable fashion advocate and consultant.
Follow me on my socials: Instagram:@lexysilverstein Youtube: Lexy Silverstein Twitter:@eLEXYfy TikTok:@lexysilverstein Facebook: Lexy Silverstein Liketoknow.it/lexysilverstein
